Olubunmi Tunji-Ojo is Nigeria’s current Minister of Interior. In this interview with ADEBAYO FOLORUNSHO-FRANCIS, the former lawmaker representing Akoko North East/ North West Federal Constituency of Ondo State addressed the concerns raised on passport racketeering, e-border, congestion in correctional facilities, and his impressive start as a minister
Many people believe you and former Governor Nyesom Wike are the star performers of this administration. Were you given a script of this ministry to rehearse before coming?
The most important thing in project management is understanding the problem. And once you understand the problem, then the solution is half provided. When we came on board, we realised we had a faulty system. In the passport section, there was scarcity of booklets. And of course, you know a passport is like a book. So, if the booklet is not available, there’s nothing you can do. We also realised that beyond that, the issue of technology was not properly being embraced at that particular point in time. I mean, end-to-end. We saw the pressure when people needed to bring their documents, birth certificates, and a few other things to the immigration offices. The officers would now need to scan to upload and that was costing the government almost N600m a year. We just thought that this was 2023, not 1923; it is the era of technology. What we did first was to ensure that we brought transparency into the system and further ensure that booklets became available. Yesterday (Thursday), I still spoke with the comptroller general. As of today, they still have 120,000 booklets in store. We don’t want to hear that there are no booklets for Nigerians. After all, they are paying for this service and they deserve to get value for what they’re paying for. So, it’s not a favour but a responsibility. We must make sure that people get value for what they’re paying for. I can tell you the government has been faithful with payments to our service providers and we have brought transparency into the transaction and process. Today, the booklets are available.
Were passport booklets really a major bottleneck as you pictured it?
Certainly! That was why we worked hard to ensure we never ran out of them. Also, we realised there was the need for a total end-to-end automation of the process. Even though automation started in bits, we just saw that there’s a need for an end-to-end, which was what we launched, I think, on January 8, 2024. With that, we developed a whole solution. At the end of the day, people upload their passports and other documents. And of course, decision-making is taken from the back end through a case management system. Today, that is saving the government about N600m every year. By just that decision, many people are finding it easy to upload and the rationale is very simple. After all, people apply for JAMB exams and whatever. They do online things, upload passport photographs, and even apply for visas by filling them out online. Why must the government now be paying for uploading what people can do? And people have been doing it with a pass rate of more than 98 per cent. It means that it has come to stay. The government is saving that money now for other things. So, we’ve finished the whole automation and also realised that, of course, there was the need to eradicate human contact to the barest minimum, especially for renewal. We understand that for first-time applicants, it’s important that there’s profiling to be sure that you’re actually a Nigerian and to be sure that we are not giving our passports to foreigners or someone who’s not entitled to it. So, for first-time applicants, of course, there are no shortcuts. You just have to go to the NIS or passport office, at least, to do the needful by getting your biometrics and stuff like that.
Does that mean Nigerians seeking passport renewal don’t need to go through the rigour of profiling all over again?
Exactly! We believe that for renewals, there should be an option for a value-added service for which you have to pay a token. But if you don’t want to go to an NIS office, we already have your biometrics and your picture in our database. So, it’s even good for us to test the veracity and integrity of our data system. Since we already have it, why must you tell people to come? I’ll give you an example. As I always say, why should somebody leave British Columbia, Vancouver, Montreal, all the way to Ottawa just because you want to renew your passport? It shouldn’t be like that. In the US, you don’t go to the immigration office. In the UK, you don’t go to the Home Office. You go to post offices to do things. So, we just thought that we could introduce the contactless solution, such that for renewals, once you are above 18 and have taken your biometrics, you can use the contactless device on your phone; it automatically queries our database and confirms that it’s you. Once it’s you, the system processes it and you get your passport. We started in November (2024), a pilot in Canada, and I’m happy to tell you that it was extremely successful because we didn’t want to start everywhere at the same time.
What about the possibility of glitches in the system?
Of course, there will be hitches and glitches here and there. I mean, as a project manager myself with over two decades of experience, I understand that you can’t start on a large scale. You have to start and continue to grow. So, of course, we started in Canada, which, of course, has been very successful, and to the glory of God, on February 7, 2025, we’ll be starting in the UK, Ireland, and the remaining part of the EU. By March, we’ll start in Nigeria and all African countries to Asia. Then April, of course, we’ll start in America. We hope that latest by May 1, our contactless will have been all over the world. So, we are phasing it month by month to ensure that, of course, when hitches come, we can manage them to the best of our ability. So, these are things that we have been able to do. Also, let me say that within the passport administration process, we know even in the UK, I stand to be corrected, and in the US, it takes between eight to 12 weeks for you to get a passport. So, I see in Nigeria, some people will apply within one week and they are already saying, what sort of a country is this? I applied for my passport three weeks ago. Yes, we understand that it’s their right to ask for the best of service. But, let me say that we will continue to improve. Our target is to be able to get passports within 72 hours to people. That’s our target within three days. We are on the path towards doing that. And, part of the plan is the centralised personalisation centre. We started from the temporary site on February 3. We started with about 21 countries, centralising their production, the personalisation of the passport in Abuja, from where we will now courier to the various embassies.
Your narrative sounded like you met some rots and anomalies on ground after you assumed office. Were things really that bad?
Let’s call a spade a spade. What we inherited was a scenario where we were personalising passports in more than 70 locations nationwide and in diaspora. There’s no country that does that because the passport is a security document of states. So, you don’t proliferate the personalisation of it. In America, passports are personalised in only two places in the whole of United States. In UK, it’s only one. In every country, it’s one or two, maximum. So, if you’re an American citizen and you’re in Nigeria, you apply for a renewal of your passport. They produce it in America and bring it here because it’s like your currency. So, we want to bring integrity to our travel documents and not a scenario where there is no mode of control. For example, you will see people who are not citizens carrying Nigerian passports. Because they go to maybe the UK, they apply for a passport there. It is the attaché in the UK that approves and prints. So, there is no check and balance. But, we are stopping all those things and bringing integrity. We started already on February 3 with about 21 countries. We hope that latest by the end of May, we would have migrated everybody, both in Nigeria and in diaspora, to a centralised personalisation centre in Abuja. We have that going in Abuja. And, of course, we know that our backup site is going to be in Lagos. With the kind of machines that we are installing, we have the capacity to produce more than 200,000 passports a day. At the moment, we do less than 10,000 per day. So, it means that once Nigerians enroll and the applications are approved, we are good to go. That you apply for a passport does not mean you will get it. People must also understand that. There are many times when we query applications; people take those things a bit personal. It shouldn’t be because there may be issues that have to do with your name or birth certificate. The passport should show that you are a Nigerian. So, for us to give you that status, we need to be sure that you are actually a Nigerian. It’s not just like a piece of paper you purchased; it’s a security document. Nigerians should understand that and, know that immigration is truly obliged to do due diligence before the issuance of passports.
We understand some NIS personnel have been complaining about the retirement package under the IPPIS and calling for the exit of the service from the scheme. Is it feasible?
Well, that is subject to debate. There’s a committee that has been set up by the Federal Executive Council to look into, not just the NIS, but a couple of agencies with regards to the IPPIS. And I wouldn’t want to preempt the committee. But I believe, as I always say, it’s all about welfare. It’s all about who cares about the people. My officers will tell you that they’ve never had it as good across all the paramilitary agencies as we’ve had now. In the last three years, we’ve promoted over 50,000 officers. The truth is that, you know, as I speak to you, there’s no single backlog of promotion within the service. The 2023 promotion was the first promotion since 1986. When the board was created, the promotion didn’t spill over till the next year. As we speak, we’ve even started the exercise of 2025. We have called for an eligibility list. So, officers know now that they get their promotions as and when due. When we came on board, there was nothing like peculiar and rent allowance. This president introduced a peculiar rent allowance for officers of the four services. And this particular government brought special packages for retired CGs, and DCGs and other personnel of the service. So, this particular government has also increased what we call the expanded establishment structure that has led to the end of stagnation of career because we had a scenario whereby the establishment structure we had was quite outdated. To see people staying on the grid for 10 years or 12 years because of vacancy has raised concerns.
This government increased and expanded it, created more. For example, we used to have only six DCGs in NIS. This government increased it to eight and created more opportunities for people to be DCGs to get the job of their career. In this particular government, we used to have only about eight or 10 zones. This administration increased it to 18. So, we have created more room for people to progress and develop.
What about complaints about their salary structure?
No, there’s nothing like a salary structure. They can’t complain on salary structure because it is not true. I’m telling you this because the records are there. This government is not owing a dime. We’re not owing them salaries. The only thing which was a complaint they made, and immediately they raised the complaint as a responsible government, we looked into it and fixed it. Some people who were, I think, employed in 2024 or so, whose salaries didn’t come on time, which was a glitch in IPPIS, were paid eventually. It wasn’t us because the ministry does not pay salaries. No ministry pays salaries. It is the IPPIS that is responsible for the payment of salaries. There was a small glitch and immediately we brought it to the attention of the accountant general, and they fixed it. Ask those people, they will tell you, last month, they were paid salaries. For me, leadership is not about people not having complaints. But leadership is about you being responsible enough to listen and respond to the complaints instead of throwing those complaints away. But, of course, I’ll tell you some of the small issues coming up were because we are blocking systems. Corruption is fighting back. For example, do you know some persons used to make 10 times their salaries from passports through passport racketeering while causing scarcity? They used to make so much. But now, they are not getting those. So, complaints are meant to come. But for hardworking, diligent officers, they will tell you that the condition of paramilitary officers under President Bola Tinubu has never been better.
We understand that despite the e-border system, Nigeria’s borders are still porous and it’s giving room for smuggling, illegal migration, and security threats. What further steps is your ministry taking to address it?
I have to mention this. I saw the editorial of TheNigerian, which I totally disagree with because I think some of the issues raised were not accurate. But I think it’s due to limited information at your disposal at that time. On the e-border, we have to tell you that what we completed was phase one and it is about 40 kilometers of our border space. It means that there’s still 60 per cent. It’s not a solution we will finish overnight. And of course, even the American-Mexican border still has issues. There’s no border that is foolproof. We are all working towards perfection. It’s a work in progress. So, the e-border solution is working the way it has been deployed And it’s assisting in aspects of national security. The details of the meeting on the e-border, I wouldn’t want to discuss it because of security concerns. Even all over the world, there are certain information that are classified. And when it comes to that premise of classified information, we have to keep them under wraps. But I want to assure you that the e-border is running well. I can tell you that it has brought renewed hope to people within the border space and, of course, across the country.
What can you say to the perennial problem of overcrowding in most of our custodial centres?
When we came on board, we realised that in the correctional service, one way or the other, without being disrespectful, we were handling inmates more like prisoners. The first thing we did was to look at the register, the inmate call, and saw that about 5 per cent, over 4,000 inmates were in correctional centres for their inability to pay petty fines. Some as little as N5,000 and 10,000. I’ll give you an example. As of that time, the feeding rate of an inmate was N715. If you keep N715 for 4,000 inmates, that is N3m a day. When you multiply N3m by 365 days, it will give you over a billion naira. We realised that we were keeping over 4,000 people in the facility over their inability to pay just about N500m and feeding them with one billion a year. So, what did we do? Without resorting to government funding, we reached out to the private sector because they all happened to be non-violent offenders. We were able to remove the 4,000 inmates and decongest our custodial centres by 5 per cent. That saves the government over a billion every year. We now did a study and saw that the rate of recidivism was actually on the increase in our correctional facilities. Of course, when recidivism increases, it means that it’s a failure of reformation, transformation, and rehabilitation of inmates. That means there’s a lacuna that can only be filled by education and, of course, skills acquisition. That led us to building a skill acquisition architecture for correctional service. Some of the decors in my office were made by inmates and I am proud to display them in my office. In the last six months of last year, over 6,000 inmates were actually trained in terms of skill acquisition and a lot is happening in terms of our educational facilities in custodial centres. It is working but we are not yet there.
Also, there is active collaboration among law enforcement agencies, the judiciary, and, of course, the correctional service. It’s an integrated system and not a one-off thing because law enforcement agencies will do the arrest and prosecute while the court remand them. So, we’re actually working with the Attorney General of the Federation with regards to that and we are poised towards being creative in solving that problem.
In the last two years, there have been reports of inmates fleeing from custodial centres. How many have been arrested and how many are still at large?
That’s not true. Well, I can tell you, since President Bola Tinubu came into office, we’ve had only two jailbreaks and those two were due to force majeure, not jail attacks. No jail attack under this particular administration, to the glory of God. The two that we had, one was in Suleja, which happened because of the rain and the perimeter fence came down. That was a custodial centre that was built in 1914. Let me say this: We have 256 custodial centres. It is impossible for anybody to think that President Bola Tinubu, within two years, would have fixed 256 correctional centres. So, obviously, because of how old it was, the fence came down when there was chaos which was further aided by rain and whatever. That’s what happened. Some inmates escaped. And, of course, some have been apprehended. But we also used that to analyse the failure of the system and what we needed to improve. As I always say, part of what we learn in leadership is making mistakes. You have to learn from your mistakes and ensure you don’t repeat such. That’s part of what we’re doing.
The second jailbreak was in Maiduguri when the Ala Dam broke and the whole place was flooded. Of course, people escaped because they needed to save their lives. We shared the information. I can tell you that a lot of them have been apprehended and effort is ongoing to ensure that we have 100 per cent arrest. So, apart from these two, we have not had any jailbreak that is due to negligence of officers or professionalism or whatever. It’s all due to force majeure and that’s why we’re working hard now. We have about 12 correctional centres now that we’re working on. I think one is in Jos. We also have in Lagos and Port Harcourt. We have a lot of correctional centres and we are taking them in batches. When you go to Kuje, you’ll see that we’ve finished the whole work. Kuje is 100 per cent ready for commission and total remodelling. We have about 12 now that we are actually working on. Once we are done, we’ll take on another 12. So, the key issue here is that I don’t like to talk about the past. But if the past administration had been doing it in bits like that, we won’t be where we are. This is the president who decided to take the bull by the horn.
Another major thing the President has also done is to approve the relocation of some correctional centers, especially the ones that have been eaten up by urbanisation. So, we’re in that process. When you look at a place like the correctional centre in Agodi, Ibadan, you’ll know it is in the middle of a market. These were the things he inherited. But like what the president always says, he inherited the assets and liabilities. You don’t take the assets and throw away the liabilities. For example, you can also look at the one in Ikoyi by the Polo Club on Obafemi Awolowo Way. What is a correctional centre doing there? Again, what is a correctional centre also doing in the one in Enugu by the GRA? So, these are a lot of the things we are looking at. While we are doing rehabilitation and renovation as short-term fixes, our eyes are also on the long-term goal of relocating correctional centres that should reflect their names and not prison.
What about the juvenile centres across the country? We have lately been seeing situations where children are mixed with adults in custody. Are we planning to build more to avoid solutions?
Definitely, we have a programme with UNICEF, and I think the roadmap was commissioned in December last year. It’s part of what we want to do. That is purely part of the plan on the agenda because we have to protect the future. I always say that a child held early in life does not mean he cannot be one of the greatest assets of the nation, depending on how the child is managed. We are here to redeem hope. We are here to renew hope.
What’s the outcome of the investigation of poor feeding in some custodial centres?
Yes, thankfully the president also increased the feeding rate by 50 per cent. We realised, of course, the feeding money, which was then N750 per day was a big issue. And of course, when we submitted our recommendation to the president, he increased it to N1,125. That’s been done at the moment. Secondly, it is to also ensure that there’s value for that money. It’s not just about increasing the money, it’s also about getting value for that money, and we are putting checks and balances in place for that.
Did you consider growing inflation during this arrangement?
Yes, of course, we did. As I said, it’s about being accountable with what we have too. The question is, how are we spending it? Before you go and ask for increments or whatever, there must be accountability. We must be sure that, okay, we spent this money judiciously, and it’s not enough. It’s only then that we can talk about it.
Let’s look at the NSCDC. There have been rising cases of oil theft. As the supervising minister, what are you doing to assist civil defence as a leading agency in the protection of critical national assets?
I think that is the core responsibility of what they are doing now. Parts of what we did, for example, when we realised the solid mineral sector was experiencing a lot of chaos and banditry, in collaboration with the Ministry of Solid Minerals, was to set up what we called the Mines Marshall, which was an offshoot of civil defence. As of today, you can confirm that the level of violence has been stabilised. And of course, we’re also working with the Ministry of Power now to talk about the Power Rangers, to be able to handle the security of our power infrastructure. On the issue of oil, I don’t have the record at hand, but we can provide you with the records on the number of illegal refineries that were destroyed, vessels arrested, and all that. In that regard, they are not doing badly. Is there room for improvement, definitely yes. I can tell you that civil defence, under our leadership, is poised towards making sure that critical assets are properly and totally protected.
There are complaints among the rank and file of the NSCDC that they are having a backlog of salary arrears and other payments…
That’s not true. I tell you that emphatically. If anybody has a complaint, they should write officially to me and bring it forward.
No worker wants to be seen fighting the government. Don’t you think there are chances they may not want to come forward for fear of victimisation?
No, I only deal with facts. I don’t deal with rumours. And I tell you, when we had this issue. I think it was TheNigerian that reported the one about the NIS (being owed), we took it up. And today, you can confirm they have gotten their salary. Now it’s ongoing because salary is not under my programme. It is IPPIS, which is under the accountant general of the federation. It’s not about me. But of course, we can intervene as the supervisory ministry. So, if there’s any complaint, if there’s any fact of the matter, they should bring it up. We are here to listen. As I said, we listen to all complaints and, of course, act on the ones we get.
Are there other innovations or policies Nigerians should be expecting from your ministry this year?
Well, I just want to assure Nigerians that this particular government, under the leadership of His Excellency, President Bola Ahmed Tinubu, will not rest until Nigerians are comfortable. Even when they are comfortable, we will still not rest because we have to maintain and improve our economy. Governance is a continuum and a working programme. Receptive governance has to continue. So, for us at the Ministry of Interior, we are here to serve the people, and we will continue to be innovative and creative. Nigerians coming into the country now will take part in the sweet experience of the E-gates in our airports. We believe that maximum comfort is what Nigerians desire and as a responsible government, we will continue to give our all towards making sure our dreams become a reality.
